The Red and Black

If you had read the article, you would understand that some people still don't realize that you shouldn't act like a 5 year old if you meet a gay person. This article is targeted to the people who are still homophobic nowadays. Since you're not homophobic, you don't have to really worry about it. Duh.

Originally posted by

Jeremiah

Was the point of this column, "Don't be mean to gay people, y'all"?

Because, well... duh.

The comments section will probably explode into an inane argument over morality anyway.

Thanks for being kickass. :D But please remember that being gay is NOT a choice.

Originally posted by

Alumna 06

I was raised in a Catholic family. I have absolutely no problem if someone chooses to be in a gay or lesbian relationship. I don't see why people make such a big deal over this issue. I have more important things to worry about!

Originally posted by

CoastalDawg

The more I read of Miss Little's postings, the more out of touch I find her to be with reality and with standards which have stood the test of time in this country and in others. Do you know that in some distinctly Muslim countries they hang people for homosexual acts, most recently about two years ago? We don't live there and would never even consider doing that because someone chooses that lifestyle. On the other hand however, whether or not you, Miss Little, or anyone else believes or accepts it, God's standards WILL prevail. One cannot choose what or who is attractive but one CAN decide whether or not to ACT on that attraction. Either you accept and believe and act on biblical principals or you don't and decide instead to accept the way of the world. Until recent years, living a homosexual lifestyle was kept under wraps, a thing of shame among individuals and families. Coming out of the closet is now all the rage and street parades are held to express one's "pride" in being gay, whatever that pride might be. Proud of WHAT? Under our laws homosexuals have all the rights of heterosexual people; marriage has been defined throughout the years as being between a male and a female and today's society isn't any smarter than those who have lived before us. There are those who claim that same sex "couples" can't buy property or execute contracts together; not true in Georgia - it happens all the time. As far as not being able to visit people in the hospital, I find that a bit strange. When I know someone is hospitalized I can go visit within normal visiting hours regardless of whether or not it is a family member; there might be situations in which only family can visit but even in those situations others are allowed. A will takes care of who gets your "stuff" when you're gone. Live however you want but don't expect society as a whole to embrace your abnormal, yes I said it ABNORMAL, lifestyle. As far as displaying affection in public, many people are further alienated because of such displays. God loves everyone and so should we but we don't have to accept everyone's choice of lifestyle. Publicly trying to force everyone to accept you isn't the way to go; just live your life, do your job whatever it may be and know that some people will accept how you live and some won't.
That has always been the case and always will be, whether homosexuality or some other "different" lifestyle is the case.

Please supply a Biblical reference where Jesus talks about homosexuality as bad, if you can. Thanks!

Originally posted by

CoastalDawg

The more I read of Miss Little's postings, the more out of touch I find her to be with reality and with standards which have stood the test of time in this country and in others. Do you know that in some distinctly Muslim countries they hang people for homosexual acts, most recently about two years ago? We don't live there and would never even consider doing that because someone chooses that lifestyle. On the other hand however, whether or not you, Miss Little, or anyone else believes or accepts it, God's standards WILL prevail. One cannot choose what or who is attractive but one CAN decide whether or not to ACT on that attraction. Either you accept and believe and act on biblical principals or you don't and decide instead to accept the way of the world. Until recent years, living a homosexual lifestyle was kept under wraps, a thing of shame among individuals and families. Coming out of the closet is now all the rage and street parades are held to express one's "pride" in being gay, whatever that pride might be. Proud of WHAT? Under our laws homosexuals have all the rights of heterosexual people; marriage has been defined throughout the years as being between a male and a female and today's society isn't any smarter than those who have lived before us. There are those who claim that same sex "couples" can't buy property or execute contracts together; not true in Georgia - it happens all the time. As far as not being able to visit people in the hospital, I find that a bit strange. When I know someone is hospitalized I can go visit within normal visiting hours regardless of whether or not it is a family member; there might be situations in which only family can visit but even in those situations others are allowed. A will takes care of who gets your "stuff" when you're gone. Live however you want but don't expect society as a whole to embrace your abnormal, yes I said it ABNORMAL, lifestyle. As far as displaying affection in public, many people are further alienated because of such displays. God loves everyone and so should we but we don't have to accept everyone's choice of lifestyle. Publicly trying to force everyone to accept you isn't the way to go; just live your life, do your job whatever it may be and know that some people will accept how you live and some won't.
That has always been the case and always will be, whether homosexuality or some other "different" lifestyle is the case.

CoastalDawg,

Shut the fuck up you fucking has been. Did you even go to UGA? You are a fucking loser who comments on fucking everything. Get a life and try to get laid for once you mom's basement-dwelling cum dumpster

Um, separation of church and state, mkay? Until your God comes down here and tells us what we're supposed to do, put the Bible down. Some of your God's standards are retarded. People who worked on Sundays would be murdered and we wouldn't have any female teachers at UGA. Thanks.

Gay pride is like Black pride. It's accepting yourself and being happy in a society that often hates you for who you are. There is nothing wrong with gay pride. Why does it bother you?

Gay people do NOT have the same rights as straight people. In some states, gay people can be FIRED from their jobs because they are gay. Some states don't allow gay couples to adopt children and some don't allow one-half of a gay couple to inherit their partner's property. Children can and HAVE been taken away from their parent because that parent happened to be gay. O

h yeah. And gay people can't get married, which prevents them from having the rights that married couples have. There are MANY rights that gay people DON'T have. In many states gay people CAN BE DISCRIMINATED against LEGALLY. ("Can I get an apartment for my partner and I?" "Partner? You're gay?" "Yes." "Sorry, no. Bye.") Please educate yourself, dear.

You seem to live in an idealized little fantasy world. The homophobic girl in the article is NOT that rare (Kind of stupid because most people don't act like 5 year olds, but her thoughts are held by many). Gay people face hatred like that everyday. Gay people are DISOWNED by their parents and kicked out of their houses on a regular base. Many gay people feel they have to lie about their sexual orientation so people won't treat them like shit. Imagine being Christian in a society that's mainly non-Christian and many people hate Christians or see them as being weird or freaky. As the butt of jokes in movies. As caricatures. Yeah. That's how many gay people feel.

Abnormal lifestyle? Honey, abnormal is subjective and it changes everyday. What we consider normal now, wasn't normal before. If you are a woman, guess what? It would have been abnormal for your ass to be in school. You don't have to like homosexuality, but you WILL treat people like you'd want to be treated. Get over your homophobic issues and quit going "OMG! Ew! Abnormal!" You're in college. Act like it. No one cares if you think homosexuality is abnormal like no one cares if someone thinks interracial relationships are abnormal.

If a gay couple is not having sex in public, who cares if they kiss and hug or whatever? Quit obsessing about what other people doing. They aren't doing anything wrong. YOU are the one who needs to grow up. They don't need to change themselves. I hate it when people want others to change instead of making themselves change. Quit blaming others for your problems.

You missed the entire point of what every non-homophobic person is trying to say: Treat people like you'd want to be treated. You don't have to like homosexuality. No one expects you to go "OMG! I love homosexuality! It's awesome." All people want is to be respected. All you have to do is treat people like you'd want to be treated. If you meet a gay person, don't flip the fuck out. Don't treat them differently because they are gay. IT IS REALLY SIMPLE. Your negative preconceptions about homosexuality and gay people are preventing you from hearing what gay people and non-homophobic people are saying. OPEN YOUR MIND. Shut down all those thoughts in your head about homosexuality.

And a question for you, if you have such a problem with homosexuality, what are your thoughts on intersexed people? Don't answer. But know that you need to change your way of thinking. Finally, being gay is NOT a choice. I think this is the main reason you have the attitude you have. There is a possibility that YOU could have ended up gay. REALLY. And don't say you wouldn't have. Gay people did not know they would end up gay. It literally just happened. That's why you treat people like you'd want to be treated. I'd suggest doing some research on homosexuality, transgenderism, psychology, sociology, and different cultures. Not every culture views homosexuality as abnormal and gets up in arms about it. Maybe someday we will not be that way.

And humans have become smarter, thankfully. And we can change marriage to include same sex (remember my comment about intersexed people?). Just because something has been a certain way for a long time doesn't mean that it can't change. (Remember women couldn't vote for a while.) And gay people getting married is not going to destroy marriage or the world. The only change that will occur will be more happy people.

We are all human beings. Whether people are gay, straight, brown, or white it doesn't matter. And finally, please don't assume that everyone holds your beliefs, because they don't.

Originally posted by

CoastalDawg

The more I read of Miss Little's postings, the more out of touch I find her to be with reality and with standards which have stood the test of time in this country and in others. Do you know that in some distinctly Muslim countries they hang people for homosexual acts, most recently about two years ago? We don't live there and would never even consider doing that because someone chooses that lifestyle. On the other hand however, whether or not you, Miss Little, or anyone else believes or accepts it, God's standards WILL prevail. One cannot choose what or who is attractive but one CAN decide whether or not to ACT on that attraction. Either you accept and believe and act on biblical principals or you don't and decide instead to accept the way of the world. Until recent years, living a homosexual lifestyle was kept under wraps, a thing of shame among individuals and families. Coming out of the closet is now all the rage and street parades are held to express one's "pride" in being gay, whatever that pride might be. Proud of WHAT? Under our laws homosexuals have all the rights of heterosexual people; marriage has been defined throughout the years as being between a male and a female and today's society isn't any smarter than those who have lived before us. There are those who claim that same sex "couples" can't buy property or execute contracts together; not true in Georgia - it happens all the time. As far as not being able to visit people in the hospital, I find that a bit strange. When I know someone is hospitalized I can go visit within normal visiting hours regardless of whether or not it is a family member; there might be situations in which only family can visit but even in those situations others are allowed. A will takes care of who gets your "stuff" when you're gone. Live however you want but don't expect society as a whole to embrace your abnormal, yes I said it ABNORMAL, lifestyle. As far as displaying affection in public, many people are further alienated because of such displays. God loves everyone and so should we but we don't have to accept everyone's choice of lifestyle. Publicly trying to force everyone to accept you isn't the way to go; just live your life, do your job whatever it may be and know that some people will accept how you live and some won't.
That has always been the case and always will be, whether homosexuality or some other "different" lifestyle is the case.

Originally posted by

Winslo

What about a 55 year old man and an 18 year old young man holding hands, kissing and other forms of public affection in the pizza line? Let's be nice to them too Heather.

Oh, and don't forget that NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) is working very hard in many states to get the age of consent lowered to sixteen or even as low as "the maturity level of the young man". Isn't that wonderful.

What's wrong with a 55 year old and 18 year old gay couple? Why wouldn't you be nice to them? There have been stranger straight couples (Hello, Anna Nicole and her wrinkly moneybags husband).

16 is already the age of consent in Georgia without the help of NAMBLA, and if you think NAMBLA is going to successfully lobby for anything, you're a goddamn fool. Why did you even bring up NAMBLA? Oh yeah, because you want to shit on the entire gay community by bringing up an organization that in no way accurately represents the majority of homosexuals.

Don't bring up NAMBLA when talking about homosexuality. People used the gay-pedophile argument in the '50's and below and we now realize that that was an incredibly stupid argument. Let's not go back to the '50's okay? Those old ass psychology books you're studying? Throw them away, please.

Most gay dudes aren't into underage dudes. (Oh, and did you know that most people who molest children are.....HETEROSEXUAL MALES???? Zing! But of course, most straight guys aren't into kids either so we don't have to worry about them.)

If you continue to bring up the NAMBLA-homosexuality argument in the future, I'm going to have to request that you drop out of college because you are too stupid and close-minded to be here. Quit being delusional and paranoid. It won't help you now or in the future.

Finally, what does your God have to do with anything? If your God is as crazy as the God in the Bible then we are screwed I guess. (We kind of aren't supposed to have female teachers who teach males or let people work on Sundays among other things.) I wonder what God thinks about intersexed people and their romantic relationships with non-intersexed people. Hmmm...

And I'm pretty sure Heather could give a crap about the ages of the gay couple. (Might want to read the article again.) You are clearly the one with the issue. Don't project onto Heather. Thanks.

This is how the world works: You don't like it. Fine. If they are not breaking the law, they are fine. I'm not a fan of super old people making out in public like sex-crazed teenagers. But as long as there is no hanky-panky, I could care less.

Originally posted by

Winslo

What about a 55 year old man and an 18 year old young man holding hands, kissing and other forms of public affection in the pizza line? Let's be nice to them too Heather.

Oh, and don't forget that NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) is working very hard in many states to get the age of consent lowered to sixteen or even as low as "the maturity level of the young man". Isn't that wonderful.

Yes, this is 2008 alright and the downhill slide continues. The "frog in the kettle" lives on.

If God doesn't judge America, he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.

S

Originally posted by

David Schwetty

Mike,

Don't let the door hit you on the way out of town. Whatever people choose to do is their own business but that doesn't mean anyone else has to accept it as right just because it's 2008. Homosexuals are a distinct minority in the US (between 2% and 5% of the population depending on the source). If the other 95% of folks don't care to deem homosexuality as "normal" they have the majority right. I hope you have fun in progressive California, all that progressive thinking has done wonders for the state and the national economy. It may be a decade before the housing situation in California is corrected

I don't suppose you know that California's economy is the most powerful in the entire Us and, if California were an independednt country, it would have the world's 5th largest economy? No, didn;t think so.

Honey, people don't choose to be gay. Learn this or be quiet. No one is asking people to accept homosexuality. You don't have to like it. But you treat people with fucking respect. That's all people ask for. That's it. No one wants to be called a "faggot" or get fired from their job because they are gay.

And honestly? I don't get the animosity towards homosexuality. I think that is a problem because it's pointless as hell. Why do you feel the need to bitch and moan about being "forced" to accept homosexuality?

Dude, it's not that serious. Sit down and think. Why does all of this bother you so much? Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. It's only about love between the same sex. You don't have to find it sexy. Why does this article bother you so much? Oh yeah. One word: intersexed. Are they gay? Hmmm... Why does all of this stuff matter anyway?

Also, normal = subjective and it changes all the time. And like I said to someone else, you could have ended up gay. Really. So think about that and modify the way you view and treat people.

And progressiveness is not a bad thing. It helps society. Accepting people for who they are will help society progress. Again, you don't have to be a super happy fan. Just accept people and treat them like human beings. Simple.

Originally posted by

David Schwetty

Mike,

Don't let the door hit you on the way out of town. Whatever people choose to do is their own business but that doesn't mean anyone else has to accept it as right just because it's 2008. Homosexuals are a distinct minority in the US (between 2% and 5% of the population depending on the source). If the other 95% of folks don't care to deem homosexuality as "normal" they have the majority right. I hope you have fun in progressive California, all that progressive thinking has done wonders for the state and the national economy. It may be a decade before the housing situation in California is corrected

Truly you must know where the animosity towards openly homosexual people comes from, don't you? It comes from those who are afraid of any homosexual thoughts they may have had in the past, as they are afraid that it means they have a core of evil to them. Think of people like Senator Larry Craig or Mike Foley, who spent their careers trying to restrict the rights of gay people, only to be "outed" themselves.

I believe that those who are angry or belittle homosexuals are those who don't realize that occassionally having a thought about the same sex does not make you gay any more than it makes you evil. It takes a strong person to embrace who you are and find acceptance for yourself and love for others and by others.

Free yourself from the binds of the Old Testament and realize that God put us here to love and be loved. There is no greater joy in life than finding someone who can love you for exactly who you are, regardless of what hardware you came equipt with.

And if you don't believe me, go to a committment ceremony. It is the greatest event you will ever witness, as you can finally witness true love that overcomes societal confounds.

Originally posted by

David Schwetty

Mike,

Don't let the door hit you on the way out of town. Whatever people choose to do is their own business but that doesn't mean anyone else has to accept it as right just because it's 2008. Homosexuals are a distinct minority in the US (between 2% and 5% of the population depending on the source). If the other 95% of folks don't care to deem homosexuality as "normal" they have the majority right. I hope you have fun in progressive California, all that progressive thinking has done wonders for the state and the national economy. It may be a decade before the housing situation in California is corrected

Originally posted by

Amanda

You are asking for her not to judge this couple, but didn't you judge the "Blonde, normal" girl in line also?

There's not much judging to do when she makes it glaringly obvious that she's an intolerant bitch.

Originally posted by

Amanda

You are asking for her not to judge this couple, but didn't you judge the "Blonde, normal" girl in line also?

Yes, she is judging, but it is important to note that she is not Pre-judging. Being prejudiced.

Originally posted by

Winslo

To Anon:

The reason I mentioned the age of 18 or 16 or NAMBLA is to show the continued "frog in the kettle" downhill slide regarding the morality of this country.

Did you know that the United Nations awhile back gave a $50,000 grant to NAMBLA to fight "discrimination" ?

In any case, if you choose to reply please try to limit your discussion to "reasoned debate" instead of vitriolic profanity.

Frog in a kettle? More like hell in a handbasket.. a very little handbasket

Uh, but there has been moral bankruptcy since interracial marriage was legalized. The people who made those arguments were right. Just look at how many queer-lovers are posting on this board....

Originally posted by

Andy

So basically, you are equating tradition and religion as a "heritage of intolerance and hate." I guess the values of small town people are based on poor education and narrow minded prejudices. I guess we should put our personal opinions aside and listen to the educated elite and moral relativists to form our values.

While I would never condone ridiculing or attacking someone based on their homosexuality, I maintain that morals are not changed just because we decide. Some things are simply wrong in and of themselves. Just because it is more open in our society doesn't make it right. As a Christian, I believe that adultery, murder, stealing, and yes, homosexuality, will always be wrong. Your arrogant, modernist, and "forward thinking" (ha!) cannot change what is fundamentally right and wrong.

While you are correct that you shouldn't necessarily take what other people tell you at face value, no matter how educated they are, you should be able to rationally support your moral beliefs. (In fact, I think it likely that you have not come to your anti-homosexual position on the basis of its own merits, but because it is how you were taught. You likely took those lessons on faith and did not critically analyze them.)
Things that are moral or immoral are such based on their impact on others. Who, if anybody, does an action harm? Who does it help? What are the negative consequences? What are the positive ones?

In the case of homosexuality, nobody is harming anybody else. Nobody is violating anybody else's rights. Love is beautiful, not something to be feared or hated.

And remember: virtually every argument against homosexuality was also used against miscegenation. Unless you are also against interracial relationships, then what rational basis do you have to be against homosexual relationships?

Originally posted by

Andy

So basically, you are equating tradition and religion as a "heritage of intolerance and hate." I guess the values of small town people are based on poor education and narrow minded prejudices.

YES YES YES YES YES.
If by 'values of small town people' you mean homophobia. Because that's what we are talking about, retards from the south publicly shaming gay people. I'd call that intolerance and hate. I'd call that a narrow minded prejudice. You can keep on being a moron and calling it 'small town values'.



[quote]While I would never condone ridiculing or attacking someone based on their homosexuality, I maintain that morals are not changed just because we decide. Some things are simply wrong in and of themselves. Just because it is more open in our society doesn't make it right. As a Christian, I believe that adultery, murder, stealing, and yes, homosexuality, will always be wrong. Your arrogant, modernist, and "forward thinking" (ha!) cannot change what is fundamentally right and wrong.[/QUOTE]

Moron. Who says that you personally get to decide what is 'right' and 'wrong'? Jesus? We aren't a theocracy (as much as you'd love one). Your christian ideals mean jack-****. Just because the bible tells you something is wrong does not make it so. People who are not religious are under no obligation to live up to your bigoted definition of right and wrong.

How about you go take your beliefs and live them yourself, instead of forcing them down the throat of everyone else? Hypocrite. LIVE YOUR OWN BELIEFS AND LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE. Newsflash: you are not the final say on what is right and wrong. As much as you can't believe it, not everyone is a christian. They aren't held to whatever ridiculous standards you hold yourself to. They can do whatever the hell they want with their own personal lives, including gay people flirting in public.

Get off the morality train and go take a basic logic class. Unless your pastor says that's evil as well.

Originally posted by

Andy

So basically, you are equating tradition and religion as a "heritage of intolerance and hate." I guess the values of small town people are based on poor education and narrow minded prejudices. I guess we should put our personal opinions aside and listen to the educated elite and moral relativists to form our values.

While I would never condone ridiculing or attacking someone based on their homosexuality, I maintain that morals are not changed just because we decide. Some things are simply wrong in and of themselves. Just because it is more open in our society doesn't make it right. As a Christian, I believe that adultery, murder, stealing, and yes, homosexuality, will always be wrong. Your arrogant, modernist, and "forward thinking" (ha!) cannot change what is fundamentally right and wrong.

Nick, thanks for your rational reply to my comment, (unlike Jeremiah who seems to be filled with the hatred that he claims I have).

As a person of faith, I do base my values on the Bible. I believe that there is a power greater than myself, and I am humble enough not to consider my judgment greater than His. However, I have used reason in deciding to be a Christian over other faiths, (or non-faith). When it comes to homosexuality, I believe it is unnatural. The male and female bodies are naturally fit together. Even the male and female psychologies fit together. (Note that this rationalization does not lead me to be against interracial couples). Some people naturally struggle with homosexuality, just as some people are predisposed to be tempted by other sins. It doesn't make it right, it just make them part of the flawed world we live in.

I am not advocating making homosexuality illegal or violating their rights. I am a libertarian who pretty much has disdain for 90% of what the government does. All I am saying is that the author of the article dismisses moral beliefs that are rooted in thousands of years of theology, philosophy and human culture; calling them close minded and bigoted simply because our culture has changed over the last few decades is a logical fallacy. She came across as elitist and as a moral relativist.

Unlike the author, I am not telling anyone to change their opinions and morals. I am just asking you not to dismiss mine and the millions of other like me. We are all sinners, and I don't claim to be better than anyone else.

Originally posted by

Reads the Bible

What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Nada, nothing, zilch. What did he say about loving your neighbor, not casting stones, not being a religious bigot, feeding the poor, caring for the sick? TONS. Thanks for this great column. I have no problem with people who oppose homosexuality on religious grounds. That's their right, just as it's their right to worship toadstools if they want. But America is a free country, and people should be free to love who they want to love! Thanks again.

To Reads the Bible:

You really need to read some more.

1) Jesus supported the entire Old Testament - "I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it". The Old Testament condemned homosexuality, bestiality, etc. not as a temporary "ceremonial law" for the Hebrews but as a lasting violation of God's creation.

2) There is no recorded language of Jesus specifically condeming pedophilia or stock market fraud either but what do YOU think He would say today ?

3) And don't forget this passage (in case you missed it in all of your reading):

I Corinthians 6:



9 Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people--none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

4) Many, many people today do not think that extramarital affairs are "sin". That's old fashioned and one's personal business they say - it "spices up" a marriage, etc. You may be one who believes that ................. but Jesus said to the woman taken in adultery "neither to I condemn you (to death by stoning) but GO AND SIN NO MORE."!

I won't even get into the "thought process thing" but:

The act of Adultery is SIN! The act of Fornication is SIN! The act of Homosexuality is SIN! The act of Pedophilia is SIN!

5) If you don't like what the Bible REALLY says about this, take it up with "the" EDITOR. I'm just the paperboy.


P.S. The great news is that God forgives if one turns to him in true repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. It doesn't make you perfect - just forgiven !

Originally posted by

Reads the Bible

What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Nada, nothing, zilch. What did he say about loving your neighbor, not casting stones, not being a religious bigot, feeding the poor, caring for the sick? TONS. Thanks for this great column. I have no problem with people who oppose homosexuality on religious grounds. That's their right, just as it's their right to worship toadstools if they want. But America is a free country, and people should be free to love who they want to love! Thanks again.

I agree America is a free country! But I disagree with your interpretation of scripture.

Try Romans 1:18-32, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, and 1 Timothy 1:9-11. This is apostolic authority.
There also arguments that Matthew 19:4-6 reference Jesus' thoughts on the issue.

For anyone who reads the Bible objectively, there is no question.

Originally posted by

Reads the Bible

What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Nada, nothing, zilch. What did he say about loving your neighbor, not casting stones, not being a religious bigot, feeding the poor, caring for the sick? TONS. Thanks for this great column. I have no problem with people who oppose homosexuality on religious grounds. That's their right, just as it's their right to worship toadstools if they want. But America is a free country, and people should be free to love who they want to love! Thanks again.

In response to your beloved quotes from the Bible maybe you should check this site out and realize that not everything is concrete.
http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html

Originally posted by

Drew

Oh, and to those of you who equate homosexuality (two people of the same sex loving each other), which from personal knowledge and experience is something that you're born with (the same as heterosexual people are born as hetero), to adultery, grow up. Adultery is wrong no matter if its hetero or homo sexual, and as for the whole Nambla reference that was made earlier, the people in Nambla are by far a minority of the gay population and are not now, nor will ever be, accepted by society nor should they. Oh, and by the way, statistically speaking, more child abusers both historically and currently, have been heterosexual, just thought I'd throw that out there.

To Drew:

Sir - you need to take some Biblical courses to understand the difference between the Old Testament "ceremonial laws" (i.e., eating certain foods, not touching a dead person, washing of hands) which were done away with when Christ came (i.e., he plucked grain and healed on the sabbath) and the moral laws which continue to this day. It's really very simple.

[QUOTE "To Drew:

Sir - you need to take some Biblical courses to understand the difference between the Old Testament "ceremonial laws" (i.e., eating certain foods, not touching a dead person, washing of hands) which were done away with when Christ came (i.e., he plucked grain and healed on the sabbath) and the moral laws which continue to this day. It's really very simple." QUOTE]


I'm sure you're quite well-versed when it comes Biblical verse and theory. Probably almost as well-versed as the Tate preacher who thinks everyone on campus is going to hell. The only thing that you prove though with your Biblical quotations is using religion to justify your prejudice. As I'm sure you know and as was mentioned in an above comment, the United States is not a theocracy, no matter how much you want it to be.

Originally posted by

Drew

Oh, and to those of you who equate homosexuality (two people of the same sex loving each other), which from personal knowledge and experience is something that you're born with (the same as heterosexual people are born as hetero), to adultery, grow up. Adultery is wrong no matter if its hetero or homo sexual, and as for the whole Nambla reference that was made earlier, the people in Nambla are by far a minority of the gay population and are not now, nor will ever be, accepted by society nor should they. Oh, and by the way, statistically speaking, more child abusers both historically and currently, have been heterosexual, just thought I'd throw that out there.

I am very pro gay rights, and what we do to them is closely related to what we did to African Americans.

However, just to play devil's advocate, what would you say if I told you I believe adultery to not be immoral? What if I believe the bond of marriage is unnatural?

You are now in your opponents' shoes. Think about it.

To Busted:

Thank you for at least opening a discussion instead of a witchhunt. I make no judgements or assumptions about anyone. I don't agree with adultery, I don't believe it to be right. I don't believe this for biblical reasons though, I just think that relationships are important institutions and adultery undermines the love and trust that should be inherent in all relationships.

Originally posted by

Andy

I don't appreciate the assumption made by many on this board that all people who think homosexuality is wrong were simply taught that by their parents and never questioned it. It's disrespectful and arrogant to assume as much.

Can you tell me why homosexuality is not bad? How do I know that you weren't taught your beliefs and never considered that there may be a higher authority for morals than your own relative rationalization? I give you the benefit of the doubt, why can't you?

See my above comments if you want my rationalization.

Andy, in no way am I trying to be disrespectful nor arrogant. I am however pointing out that a majority of people who "believe" that homosexuality is wrong take that belief solely because they're told to think that from a young age, as evidenced by the kids in the Westboro Baptist Church who hold up signs saying "God Hates Fags". When asked what a fag is, they say that "fags are pretty much the same thing as jews". I'm not saying that everyone is as extreme as Westboro by any means, but the prejudice is still there, nonetheless.

Originally posted by

Winslo

To Busted:

To try to equate someone's skin color with the overt "act" of homosexuality is an old argument that won't work. Skin color is natural. There is nothing about the act of homosexuality that is natural - in fact let's be honest here - it is very "unnatural" and anatomically dangerous.

Now, if you wan't to say homosexuals were born that way based on genetics, there have also been some very interesting articles written about "homosexuality" and "natural selection" of the species. In other words, if only the strong and most adaptable survive (and homosexuals can't reproduce) why is the "gene" still present?

Although you can argue "desire" the "act" is a choice just like "choosing" to be unfaithful to your wife even if you have your "eye" on another woman.

Homosexuality is a physically, emotionally and spirtitually destructive lifestyle. If a homosexual male is not attracted to women - fine - but being celebate is the best long-term course of action.

Perhaps, you don't know many homosexuals. To say that it is anything they can control is foolish. Having many gay and lesbian friends in both school and work, I can attest to the fact that they did not choose their lifestyle. They were born with it.

Every single one of them had to struggled trying to understand why they weren't like everyone else. They have to disclose this to their family and friends. Could you even fathom having to do that?

The last thing they deserve is to be ridiculed publicly, and be denied rights available to everyone else. Live, and let live.

Your belief system does not factor into this equation.

This is an issue of civil rights violations. Despite your disagreement with this lifestyle, you cannot persecute these individuals, and you cannot mandate your beliefs upon them. This is a country founded on freedom and equality for all, not just the protestant majority.

Originally posted by

Winslo

Then please tell me why adultery is grounds for divorce?

Is your faith the only one that condemns adultery?